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TOPIC: The future or never?.... 40g breeder Reef setup.

The future.... 40g breeder Reef setup. 4 years 10 months ago #7139

  • buehler
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You make any head way for lights? or did I miss something?
10 gallon IM Fusion - Zoa Tank
Eagle Eye Zoas
Scrambled Eggs Zoas
Utter Chaos Palyzoas
Fire and Ice Zoas
Pipe coral
Ricordea Mushrooms
Rhodactis Mushrooms
Glove Polyps


phryno.wordpress.com
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The future.... 40g breeder Reef setup. 4 years 7 months ago #10795

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Sup B.

You haven't missed anything. Just haven't had the time to move forward on this project lately. But I'm back on it now. I'm hopefully going to start up on the stand again and I've been looking at/pricing equipment as well.

What about you?
"My Country is the World, and my Religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine
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The future.... 40g breeder Reef setup. 4 years 7 months ago #10796

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Making a few changes -


40g tank drilled for overflow (www.glass-holes.com/700-In-N-Out-Complete-System-innout7.htm)
20g sump (home made - hopefully it goes better this time around)
Pump (www.glass-holes.com/Danner-Mag-Drive-Sup...ater-Pump-DN1127.htm)
DIY stand (in process)
Reefbreeders Photon 24 (www.reefbreeders.com/it2060.html)
Reef Octopus NWB110 (www.bulkreefsupply.com/reef-octopus-nwb1...protein-skimmer.html)
Reef Octopus Biopellet reactor (www.bulkreefsupply.com/super-reef-octopu...opellet-reactor.html)
Dr. Tim's NP Active Pearls (www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_disp...7+24536&pcatid=24536)
"My Country is the World, and my Religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine
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The future.... 40g breeder Reef setup. 4 years 7 months ago #10802

  • monarchzman
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You might look into the SC Aquariums SCA-301 65 Gallon Protein Skimmer. That's the one I'm looking at. From the few reviews I've read, it looks like a good one for a fraction of the price of the reef octopus.
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The future.... 40g breeder Reef setup. 4 years 7 months ago #10803

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Awesome. Thanks for the tip. I'll check It out.
"My Country is the World, and my Religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine
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The future.... 40g breeder Reef setup. 4 years 6 months ago #10817

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reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288714&page=10

Just a little light reading on vodka dosing/ zeovit systems.
"My Country is the World, and my Religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine
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The future.... 40g breeder Reef setup. 4 years 6 months ago #11974

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I've been doing a lot of research on this future setup lately. I'm going to be frank... I'm bored. It's an average of about -10 degrees outside and it gets dark at 500pm. So I do a lot of reading, lol.

I'm back at the SPS. Like I said earlier I will start out with 'easy' SPS like Birds nests, and Montiporas. Maybe I'll just stick with those, who knows. I do like the look of many stylophora and pocci's as well though. I'd like to set up two different rock formations where I have SPS on top of one, and zoas on the bottom, and LPS on the other - probably mostly euphyllias - Torch, Hammer, Frogs etc and maybe some acans or brains at the bottom.

Biopellets:
I've been researching biopellets and their advantages and disadvantages on reef tanks. There are a lot of varying opinions on the effectiveness of biopellets. Some people saying they don't work at all, some people saying they add bacteria to the water column, some people saying they can completely void a system of nutrients causing a crash - after a lot of reading and research, I'm convinced that all of these scenarios are possible given the right circumstances.

They don't work at all:
Probably that guy that thought these were the 'quick fix', 'miracle pill', one and done solution. Most of the people who didn't research the actual function of the product probably fall under this category as well. The biopellets are a necessary energy source for another species of nitrifying bacteria. That bacteria, just like the others, needs time to culture and multiply before it is present in large enough numbers to make a difference in nitrate and phosphate. It could take 4 weeks, it could take 6 or 8. I think most of the people who didn't do the research probably gave up after a few weeks of no results and began complaining.

Adding bacteria to the water column:
In order to utilize the biopellets you need a reactor so the pellets can be efficiently introduced to the water and bacteria. After the water passes through the reactor it must go to a protein skimmer or the bacteria that break down the nitrate and phosphate will be free to enter the tank and water column essentially rendering the process mute. I see many many many people putting the outflow of the reactor into the same chamber of the skimmer but not connecting the two. Although this can be effective, it allows the free nutrients to escape the chamber and get into the tank.

Completely voiding a system of nutrients:
Although you'd think this would be a good thing, it's not. Corals need some phosphate to complete calcification. Completely reducing the water column of free phosphate can bleach corals. I think that this is a rare situation. They did everything right, but added the biopellets too quickly. The bacteria cultures grew to numbers that were able to quickly strip the water column of phosphate and as a result the corals suffered. If you are phosphate limited, it would be easiest just to feed more often, or in larger quantities as most fish/coral foods are phosphate based, but the point is to avoid the phosphate crash in the first place to avoid any losses.

My plan is to use the Reef octopus biopellet reactor and power it with a powerhead that is running at fewer GPH than the skimmer pump. Now I plan on going with the Reef octopus NWB150 which uses a haliea otp 200 which runs at 500 gph. As long as the power head is under that gph, the flow going into the skimmer will not overwhelm it and everything that leaves the reactor should hit the skimmer. As I said I am going to plumb directly into the skimmer from the reactor to achieve this - but not exactly sure how as I don't have any of the equipment yet; I might have to get creative. As far as crashing the phosphate goes - I plan to put the biopellets into action before I purchase any pearls. I'd like to get a feel for the system and how it runs, master it before I add anything.
"My Country is the World, and my Religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine
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The future.... 40g breeder Reef setup. 4 years 6 months ago #11975

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LED vs Metal Halide -

I struggled with this one for a while. Since the dawn of these new controllable, powerful LEDs Metal halide fixtures have come down in price. I could definitely manage to put a 250 watt pendant over the 40brd for a decent price. I know that MH's are proven. I've seen probably hundreds of tanks dominated with SPS run by MH fixtures so I know they can do the job.

LED's can grow corals too, I have seen this myself; but there is a shadow of a doubt in my mind about them being able to grow SPS as richly as MH's do.


There are two primary 'problems' with LED's and SPS.

One is the color spectrum. MH bulbs are typically two or three different spectrums - 10,000K, 14,000K, or 20,000K. Then they are paired off a lot of times with T5HOs or PC's. For decades these spectrums have been used to mimic the suns properties and most of the coral industry used the same types of combinations. So frags went from a wholesaler where they were kept under 400w MH Phoenix 14000K and 4x 54watt blue plus t5ho. You could mimic that pretty easily with whatever fixture you had at home. PC, maybe not but if you have a halide fixture, definitely. Now these same frags are moving from a MH combo to a LED fixture which runs 12 4500K cool whites, 18 453nm royal blue, 6 660 reds, and 8 420nm violets. The spectral output of these LED's varies quite a from any MH bulb, even a straight 10000K, actinic bulb setup. So corals change colors with the change in spectrum, or sometimes they fade, sometimes they even brown. I can't attest to this phenomena but it does make sense to me.

The other problem is the spread of the light. You get great coverage from LED's don't get me wrong, but what I mean is that light from a typical 'bulb' is wholesome. It's encompassing. And because many sps tend to grow straight up and down this is significant. LED's do tend to create shadows because they are in a fixed position where they can only emit light downward. This tends to eliminate that 'wholesome light' effect that you can achieve with MH's or T5's or even Power compacts. Again I cannot give any proof to this and I don't have experience with this effect but I have read about it and it was a concern in my decision making process.

All that being said I still think LED's are going to be my choice. The spectrum issue can be resolved. It might not be easy, but given the flexibility of some of these fixtures you should be able to find the exact spectral output of a given MH combo and duplicate it with LED's. Most LED's come with a stock LED arrangement, but the Reefbreeders fixture allows you to replace individual LED's without voiding the warranty. It may take a lot of time and experimentation but I think this is a huge advantage. Not only will you be able to customize your color spectrum but in 4-5 years down the road when the diodes go out, you can replace the board for a very reasonable price. Another more obvious reason cost. New halide bulbs run 60-100 dollars and you need to replace them every year. Not to mention how much energy they suck up when they are running 12 hours a day. LED's are also significantly cooler and shouldn't increase water temperature much if at all. But these are things we already knew. I also really like the settings and control you have over the individual channels and timers.

MH's are proven and do a great job, but I really think that LED's are the future.
"My Country is the World, and my Religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine
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The future.... 40g breeder Reef setup. 4 years 6 months ago #11980

  • monarchzman
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I'm still happy with my LEDs. My birdsnests and acro are growing well. My montiporas aren't growing as quickly, but they are growing. The LPS do very well with it (my chalice probably put on a good 1/2 - 3/4" since I got it a few months ago. My trumpet started with 2 heads and is now to 5 since I got it a few months ago. I largely got it for the savings. MH would be great, but the cost is more than I can handle right now.
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The future.... 40g breeder Reef setup. 4 years 6 months ago #12002

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And I think that the majority of reefers who start out with LED's will feel the same way. It's mostly the people who had been running MH's for years and then got caught up in the craze and switched to LED's with virtually no way to ease them into the transition. A lot of those people are unhappy with the switch. But like I said, it's not going to stop me from going LED.
"My Country is the World, and my Religion is to do good." -Thomas Paine
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