First tank

[Buehler]

Hello all,

I just took the plunge into the saltwater world and thought I would document what I am doing so people with more experiance can help me as I go. I purchased a 50 gallon tall tank recently and as of now only have one dead rock and a powerhead in it(the powerhead puts out 250 gph). My next thought is to get some live rock to help cycle the tank. I was think ing of just getting 20-30 pounds of live rock(it's expensive in the area about 9 dollars a pound) after i get the rock I am going to get some more dead rock and just let the live rock bacteria grow to the dead rock and make some zombie rock. As far as lights go I am torn. I have the opprutunity to purchase some coralife 36" T5 bulbs. I think it is 48x4 set up and the guy is willing to give it up for only 50 dollars lights and all. However, I have been reading and have seen LED lights are the next big thing and for my tank they would be relatively cheap( a little more than 100 dollars). Any thoughts?
As for what would go into the tank I am still deciding. I have considered the following stocking ideas.
1 clownfish
1 coral beauty
1 dottyback of some sort
various shrimps and snails
1 anenome
multiple feather dusters

the other stocking idea is more advanced, but I think I can handle it.

1 dwarf lionfish
1 snowflake eel
multiple feather dusters

I am personally leaning toward the first stocking idea, but the second does appeal to me because i love lionfish.
As far as filtration goes I am planning on using a emperor 400 to start with and moving to a sump or refugium when they move to my permanent address over the summer. Would the live rock be enought filitration for a couple of month?
As of now this is all the questions and information that i can think of, but if ou have anything to add or a question about the set up just let me know.

[Jon M]

Lion FIsh are really cool but I would go with line up #1 just because of the Clown Fish. I think they look incredible in salt water tanks. Also I've seen some very vibrant colored shrimp in some local salt water setups.

[Herefishyfishyfishy]

Awesome! Someone to talk SW with!

Live rock in my area goes for about $4 a LB so $9 seems way steep to me unless it is absolutely buzzing with life/corals. Most sites online have Fiji LR for about $7 a LB.
Your lights should highly depend on what kind of tank you are starting. Do you ever plan to have corals or do you plan on making this a fish only with live rock? If you are only looking for FOWLR then the LEDs (that are below $100) would work great. If you want corals you better scoop up that 48x4 T5 - for 50 bucks I think that is a heck of a deal.

The anemone is something to keep in mind for the future. I wouldn't recommend them in any tank less then 9 months old as they are very sensitive and can easily die with any spike in ammo, which can be experienced as the rock fully matures over the first few months. The anemone also depends highly on sun light so again, those cheaper LEDs wont work - but the T5s will.

First decide what kind of tank you want (Reef, FOWLR, FO). From there we can work on getting some good LR and getting it cycled. Once the LR starts to cycle you can then add your cleanup crew and a few weeks after that you will be good to add a fish. I would recommend starting with a clown as they are very hardy and a good fish to get into the hobby with, they are compatible with lots of other fish and leave many options available as your tank evolves over the first year.

I've had my SW reef for only 2 years now so I am no expert but if there is any advice I can give is to be patient. Nothing in SW comes quickly (I thought cycling a FW tank took long - its nothing in comparison to a SW with LR) so take your time. Understand from the start that you are looking at a minimum of a month and a half before you add the first small fish. It will test your patience but it will be worth it - SW expands your mind

[Buehler]

As of now I am looking at a FOWLR tank. Partially becuase coral is expensive and partially because as you said first tank and I don't want to kill something as soon i get it. I wouldn't say the LEDs are cheap just the tank isn't wide so I can get a smaller kind that will fit. The ones I have in mind are Marineland Double Bright LED system. What all is involved with cycling the tank? I have a six week winter break coming up so I have the time to let it sit and mature. Right now the tank has water, regular sand, one coral rock(not live), a powerhead and a new heater. What all do I need to do for live rock when I get it?
Also, I am leaning towards the first stocking scheme. I like movement in the tank. I've kept big fish and they can get boring after a while.

[Herefishyfishyfishy]

Cycling a SW tank isn't much different then cycling a fresh tank. You just need to wait out the ammonia and nitrIte spikes to subside before you start adding life to the tank. To seed your LR I would try to find one really good piece of LR (the more the better) to seed the new rock. From there you just want to drop in a raw shrimp and let it break down in the tank. All the bacteria that you need will start feeding from the decaying shrimp. Once you see nitrAtes you can do a larger water change and add your clean up crew.

Here is a brief step by step overview on how the cycling process and setup in general should progress, this was written by Lee over at reefsanctuary.com:

SEQUENCE OF THE SET UP

1. Place cleaned aquarium in its spot; make all plumbing connections; attach all equipment. If glue or adhesives were used, allow time to cure them before proceeding.
2. Put in substrate (that has been cleaned); DO NOT BOTHER USING LIVE SUBSTRATE -- Waste of $.
3. Put in some water; don't fill tank more than half-full with marine water (onto a dish so as to not disturb substrate).
4. Arrange live rock.
5. Fill tank with marine/salt water (An alternative approach is to put in substrate, then fill the tank with source water and mix the first batch of saltwater in the display tank. This will work too. After the water is mixed, aged, and adjusted, then arrange the live rock in it (removing excess water if necessary and storing it for water changes)).
6. Start operation of equipment (light, pumps, filter, heater, skimmer, etc.); look immediately for leaks and that all equipment is operating properly. Place the sponge filters (for use with the quarantine tank) into the tank or system (sump) and get that running.
7. Check water chemistries (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate) and water parameters (specific gravity, temperature, and pH). Make minor changes to specific gravity, temperature, and pH at this time. Practice holding these three as steady as you can on a day-to-day basis. Do these tests at various times of the day to see how they fluctuate (if the do) throughout the day.
8. LET THE TANK RUN LIKE THIS FOR AT LEAST TWO WEEKS. Check twice or three times a day all equipment for leaks and malfunction. Make any equipment adjustments.
9. Life should be coming out of the live rock by this point, and hopefully pods and worms will be spreading around the aquarium. (Check at night, too). Start feeding that life. Add frozen fish foods to the aquarium (NOT pellets or flake) at a rate of about 0.5 gram every day or other day per 25 gallons of water. After no less than two weeks OR when readings indicate ammonia level is zero and nitrite levels are below 0.10 ppm and pH is being held steady go on to 10. Add additional pods and worms if you like, at this point.
10. Begin your water change pattern (10+% weekly, 25% every 2 weeks, or 40+% monthly are good choices). Check that the sponge filter(s) put into the display tank (sump) in 6. are running properly.
11. When all chemistries and parameters are stable and where they should be, now check alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium. Adjustments may be needed, but for the most part your water changes will probably keep these controlled unless the artificial salt or source water is not balanced. Target your adjustments to get them into balance. See: What is Water Quality?.
12. After any adjustments from 11, repeat the tests 48 hours later to make sure the concentrations are where they should be. Continue adjustments; testing each time 48 hours after the adjustment until alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium are balanced according to the chart (see 11. link). WAIT 1 more week after all adjustments are finished! Now start checking the phosphate concentration.
13. Slowly add your clean-up crew from quarantine. (They can be added to the display without quarantine and if you choose this process, you should be okay -- but some undesirable lifeforms can get into the system you may regret later). Add all snails, including some carnivorous ones. Feed them according to what they need to eat. (Feed herbivore snails with pieces of sheets of marine algae; feed carnivore snails with bits of shrimp flesh, scallop, squid, clam, etc. but no pellets yet). Do not add starfish or cucumber at this point. Don't add any obligate detritus eaters.
14. Run aquarium with the clean-up crew being fed and kept healthy for a few weeks. Then, if all water chemistries and water parameters are still good, add shrimp, additional worms and pods you'd like to keep. Feed all your livestock every two days. At this time, you can include the feeding of pellets that sink.
15. Determine the foods needed for the fishes you want to keep. Obtain proper nutritional supplements and foods and get things ready for handling fishes. Hopefully you are going to quarantine all new fishes. Setup your quarantine tank, use the filter you put into your display or system sump (see 6.). You should follow the guidelines here: [rul=http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/fish-diseases-treatments/23584-fish-quarantine-process-step-step.html]Quarantine Procedure[/url]. When the QT is up and running with zero ammonia and nitrites, you may now put into your quarantine tank your first (hardy) fish for the full quarantine procees of 6+ weeks.
16. Drop a clean, opened, previously frozen and thawed living clam into the aquarium (talking about the main system display tank) once every 10 days. You should see worms, carnivorous snails, and the shrimp eating it. Remove any uneaten clam 20 hours after putting it in. At this point in time, change out half of your carbon/chemical filter. Every 2 weeks from now on, replace the oldest half of your carbon.
17. After no less than 6 weeks of running the aquarium with the clean-up crew in place with proper, steady water quality the appearance of the aquarium should be coming around. There should be less noticeable 'brown algae' and nuisance algae. The clean-up crew can be expanded along the way as needed. Snails may be laying eggs (a zig-zag track of a wide, whitish, strands on the aquarium wall -- a good sign), pod population should be very high, and worms are perhaps more noticeable (they are getting brave since there are no worm predators around -- yet!).
18. Your first (hardy) fish, having gone through proper quarantine, should now be ready to go into the main system.
19. Start adding hardy fish to the display aquarium at a rate no faster than one fish every 6 weeks. Monitor all chemistries and if anything goes out of sorts, stop adding fish, determine any causes, fix causes, make additional water changes, etc. before continuing. CHOOSE YOUR FISH WISELY.
20. After the first fish is added, and ONLY for tanks over 75 gallons, you may quarantine a Chocolate Chip Star separately to be added to the display. Same with a cucumber. The QT for the cucumber can have a thick substrate laden with food particles during quarantine. Choose the star for display tanks of 75-165 gallons; or for aquariums over 165 gallons you can choose a cucumber safe for marine aquariums. Now is the time to add any obligate detritus eaters.
21. After several (6-8) months of operation after the clean-up crew was put in, the tank should be mature and ready for more sensitive fishes (the large Angelfishes, Butterflyfish, etc.) IF the aquarium is large enough to properly keep them. If the goal is to keep these kinds of fishes, then let the tank run with the clean up crew, shrimp, etc. and regular feedings for these critters, for no less than a total of 6 months. NOTE: Large Angelfishes should be kept in 300 gallon or larger aquariums, preferably a 500+ gallon when they are a longer than 10 inches.
22. Don't overstock. Stick to your plan.
23. Add fish one at a time with no less than 6 weeks in between so the system can adjust to each addition. The system needs time to gear up to additional bio-loads and demands put on it.

Here's a good place to get a cleanup crew:
http://www.reefcleaners.org/

The owner John is awesome, I cant recommend him enough. When you give him the specs on your tank he can tailor a good CC (cleanup crew) for you.


Few Questions:

Do you have a link to the LED's you are looking at?
What kind of power head do you have?
Have you taken a look at skimmers yet?
Are you mixing your own water or buying premixed water?
Have you looked into ROD units for topoff water?


Looking forward to seeing this thing come to life!

[Herefishyfishyfishy]

Heres another simple read on cycling:
http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/just-starting-out-sw-beginners/26180-newbies-little-something-cycling-breaking-new-reef-tank.html

[Buehler]

First here is the link I am looking at the 24-36" make.
http://reefbuilders.com/2010/02/26/doub ... ption-led/

I think that for the top of water I will make my own in separate 5 gallon jugs that I have. I need to find a place to get some distilled water because RO water is out of the question(live in a dorm now). I checked out the cleaner sight and got a package of cleaners that should work some mass wonders when the algae strikes The one thing that I have read mixed things on is when to add the live rock. I have a contact who is willing to sell off his left over LR for a reasonable price when he finishes downsizing his 250 gallon.

As for now I have one 250 GPH powerhead on the tank. I am looking to purchase several more in the near future, however, I already had this one and just needed something to get some surface agitation. As for skimmers, I have looked around, but am lost as to what kind to get. I want a HOB skimmer because I have no sump of reguim. Also do I need any kind of other filter i.e. canister or HOB?

I started cycling the tank about a week ago when I got the power head, and today I just had my first appearance of nitrites
Also thanks for all the info, so far it is the most clear info I have gotten on cycling the saltwater tank.

[Herefishyfishyfishy]

Any news on progress?

If you are cycling the tank without fish I would get the LR in there asap because it too needs to cycle and break down the die off that usually happens when transporting the rock. What method of introducing ammonia did you go with? Any pics, I know it wont be glamorous at this moment but I can always get a better feel for a tank when I see exactly what were working with.

[Buehler]

MOst recent progress was the addition of a shatterproof heater. The other one was in consistent and I didn't trust it. The introduction of ammonia was done by throwing some brine shrimp in the tank to decompose and produce plenty of ammonia. Right now I am not in to big of a hurry for the LR because I have a friend breaking down his saltwater aquarium that was established for several years, therefore, it doesn't needed cycled if anything it is going to speed cycle my tank.

I'll try and get some photos up next week, but right now have no camera(I live in a dorm), however, I can grab mine when I return to my motherland this weekend.

[Fishlab]

If you add good mature liverock from another aquarium it will help establish a function nitrogen cycle very quickly....if you order in liverock (or it hasn't been at your LFS long) then it will add considerable dieoff (ammonia) and establishing the cycle will be similar to how it is going now.

I would just go with some powerheads for water movement if you have liverock (all baserock will become liverock, bacterially, in very short order), then you do not need a canister or HOB (a canister would require lots of cleaning and a HOB makes mountains of salt creep. The Koralia powerheads are great in that they move a large volume of water with lower flow intensity, just one placed near the surface will agitate it plenty ...on a 50g aquarium I would recommend some sort of HOB protein skimmer which will also aerate the water.

[Buehler]

I have a powerhead in the tank right now, and a friend gave me some of his matured sand and rock to help cycle the tank. He also gave me a clownfish because it was terrorizing his orchid dottyback and peppermint shrimp. However, winter break started today and the clownfish and his rocks had to travel again to a different tank. right now he is in a 10 gallon with his rock and powerhead, fighting with his reflection.
Also, tomorrow I am going to pick up a coralife powercompact t5 light fixture. Its 36" long and the tnak is only 30", however, the fixture is only 50 dollars so Ill get over it.

[Herefishyfishyfishy]

Things still goin ok?

[Capt Dave]

skilter makes a very good IMHO combo HOB protein skimmer and cartridge filter. i would not rely on the unit for all the filtration but it is a good booster. the skimmer worked flawlessly for me. I think i read somewhere that you should not run the skimmer while cycling...not sure on that one though

[Buehler]

Right now everything is being postponed until after winter break. I was looking to cycle the tank over break, but they wont let me back into my dorm for a month Therefore, I took the fish home as well as my rocks to continue cycling them in a 55 gallon tank. Hoping to pick up the skimmer after christmas. Also, I will get the rest of my rock and a light of some sort. Any suggestions for lights?

[Capt Dave]

depends on if ya do corals or not. many need very specific lighting

[Buehler]

I dont plan on doing corals for about another year or two. Right now I just want to keep a FOWLR tank, however, are there any low light corals? I've thought about getting an anemone for my clownfish.

[Buehler]

Update.

I had bought some live rock from a SW breeder in my area for a good price and added it to my tank after curing it. ( Didn't take long cause it had been in use for several long years) Kind of nice on piece already had some coraline algae on it. I will post pics later this week.

I have been following rush's posts and have been looking at the Bakpak skimmers. May be what I get, but i'll check CL first.

[flipitsmike]

I got a quick question about a SW tank. I've always wanted a clown fish ever since I seen finding nemo. Could I make a salt water tank out of a 10 gallon or is that too small? I read around google that you need atleast a 30 gallon. I'm not getting a sw tank anytime soon I just want some type of general idea in my head just in case it ever happens.

[Buehler]

A ten gallon would be really small to have. I know people that have done it, however, they are a bit more difficult to keep just because water is more difficult to maintain. The bigger the tank the more stable it will be.

[~RuSh~]

Update.

I had bought some live rock from a SW breeder in my area for a good price and added it to my tank after curing it. ( Didn't take long cause it had been in use for several long years) Kind of nice on piece already had some coraline algae on it. I will post pics later this week.

I have been following rush's posts and have been looking at the Bakpak skimmers. May be what I get, but i'll check CL first.

Just for your info, the Bakpak was 150.00 at my LFS. I did get a discount though because I spend a lot of money there and I'm on a first name basis with almost every employee. The Bakpak online is... http://www.wctrib.com/event/article/id/76622/

[Buehler]

Here are some update photos





I am in the process of getting the skimmer, however, since this is just a temporary tank I am going to wait until everything is in the DT again.

Also, the coraline covered rock on the upper right has sprouted several feather dusters(one giant one), one or two starfish, an unknown anemone and an apstasia(sp?). I am waiting to see what else comes out in the next week or two after the tank bacteria finishes acclimating to the added bioload.

Also, sorry for the dirty tank I'll get some more photos later. It has since been cleaned daily.

[Buehler]

I believe that the mystery anemone is a Majano anemone. So I reckon it will need to be removed. Also, last night I believe that I saw a gammarid. I don't think that I will be able to get photos of him, but I could tell it wasn't a mantis thank goodness

[Buehler]

UPDATE:

Today I picked up a Marineland double bright LED system for around 90 bucks. So far I am happy with how it looks and how much light it puts off. Just today I had a strawberry anemone come out and about an hour after the lights were changed one of the starfish ventured out for 5 minutes or so.

I am still trying to decide upon a skimmer and am thinking of getting a HOB super octopus. I'm not sure of the exact model, but I will post that later.

Another thing I am debating is how to light the rock when I go back to the 50 gal. tall. I am not adding any corals until the summer when everything will be in a standard 55 gallon, so I can get away with some lesser lighting. However, I would like to keep my live rock live. I was thinking of taking a 5 gallon bucket, removing all metal hardware, cutting it in half, resining some sand to it and put it against the back of the 50 gallon tall to put the LR closer to the surface. By doing this I can keep the live rock around 14" from the surface and, therefore, avoid having to by metal halides and making a ballast. Any thoughts on my plan?

Thanks for following

[Herefishyfishyfishy]

I don't have time to write a lengthy post ATM but... sweet rock man!!! Glad to see things are progressing. Ill be back with more later today

[Buehler]

The LED light must be working something fierce because every starwberry, mojano, and apstasia are on top of the rock right now. It isn't cramped so I am not worried yet. Ill post some new pics with the LEDs tomorrow.