I think I poisoned my Oscar, What to do????

[Leo625]

Well I recently got a tiger Oscar fish and I love it very much and have been doing all I can to accommodate it. Yesterday I tested with my 5n1 strips and all was fine but then I realized they don't test amonia so I got some amonia test strips and it was at a very high level. So I bought some amonia treatment fizz tablets and tried to distract my Oscar with food while it dissolved in the tank. But then after it was pretty much all the way disolved he went down and sucked up all the powder left. It wasn't until afterwards i realized you were suppose to dissolve in a cup first The amonia levels in the tank are testing safe now though

His belly almost immedietley became bloated and expanded and he remained gasping for breath at the top of the tank for the rest of the night with his belly not going down at all. This morning he seemed better with his belly no longer bloated, he was remaining in his cave but now he's just sitting back at the top gasping for air. He ate a little earlier but now won't eat at all. He's not acting all energetic like he usually is and I'm starting to worry he might not pull through Is there anything I can do to help him get through this

[ljones]

Probably not much if anything you can do except wait and hope he pulls through. Hopefully you've realized that the time to read the instructions is before you do something like this. This is actually more than mildly infuriating.

On a related note, the test strips are worthless. For just a little more than those strips you could have picked up a vastly superior API freshwater master test kit.

[OHern4ever]

Your first step is to throw away those tablets. They are worthless even though in the short run they reduced your ammnia. A water conditioner like Prime which you will need for your weekly water changes can do the same thing and is totally safe for your fish, even if you overdose it.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4057

My only reccomendation would to try and make your fish as comfortable as possible for the next few days and hope he recovers on his own. Keep the lights on the tank off and do daily massive water changes in the order of 75% and up. Make sure you are properly dehlorinating the water before adding it back using a product like Prime. The water changes will keep the ammonia levels down and give him the best chance he has. Try not to disturn the tank when performing the water changes ( assuming that your tank is not cycled ) to minimize destroying the growing beneficial bacteria on the inside tank surfaces. I would not feed him anything for the time being, as uneaten food will just contribute to your ammonia issues. If you do try and feed him make sure you quickly remove uneaten food.

Let's assume he is going to recover and see if we can figure out what led to the ammonia spike. Can you please provide the following tank information? Is this a new tank?
-Tank Size
-Filtration
-Occupants
-Ammonia
-Nitrite
-Nitrate
-PH
-Water Temp

it sounds like you do not have a master test kit. if you do not, please pick one up ASAP. below is a link to what you are looking for and post the results.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4454

[Leo625]

Let's assume he is going to recover and see if we can figure out what led to the ammonia spike. Can you please provide the following tank information? Is this a new tank?
-Tank Size
-Filtration
-Occupants
-Ammonia
-Nitrite
-Nitrate
-PH
-Water Temp

it sounds like you do not have a master test kit. if you do not, please pick one up ASAP. below is a link to what you are looking for and post the results.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4454

I don't have the master test kit I just bought everything seperately, i got the 5n1 test strips and now tha ammonia test strips.

My tank size is currently a 25 gallon, since he's an infant I assumed this would be ok until I got the bigger tank. I actually had plans setup from a seller on craigslist to get a 55 gallon tank this weekend.

All the products I have are Easy Balance which maintains PH and water chemistry, aqua safe to dechlorinate, Start Zyme which maintains biological balance and reduces sludge, and I also added the recommended amount of aquarium salt for the tank size.

I have the filter that came with the tank and a water heater that maintains a heat of 78 degrees. And there's also an infant plecto in the tank with him.

Ammonia was testing at the safe level after I added tablet, nitrite and nitrate are both testing at the safest level, and PH was testing at about 7.2.

I just got back home and he's actually seeming to improve, he's not breathing heavily at the top of the water anymore and is swimming around the tank so I'm feeling confident he's on the road to recovery However he's still obv not acting his normal self or being as energetic and is actually seeming to be reclusive when I approach the tank rather than get excited like normal.
I'm leaving the lights off as you recommended for now and refraining from feeding him from the time being.

[ljones]

The thing to realize here as that your test results are more or less meaningless. The strips are notoriously inaccurate. You're not going to be able to keep an oscar and a plec together in a 55 gallon tank. Easybalance is crap. How long have you had your tank set up? If your ammonia is spiking and your nitrate is at the "safest level" (presumably zero) then your filter media is not cycled.

[Leo625]

The thing to realize here as that your test results are more or less meaningless. The strips are notoriously inaccurate. You're not going to be able to keep an oscar and a plec together in a 55 gallon tank. Easybalance is crap. How long have you had your tank set up? If your ammonia is spiking and your nitrate is at the "safest level" (presumably zero) then your filter media is not cycled.

I guess I just need to see about returning the plecto because I cann't get higher than a 55 right now, are you sure they wouldn't make do together? and I've had the tank setup for about 5 days now.

[ljones]

If your media were cycled, they could work together for a very short period of time while they're small. However, once they start to grow, 55 gallons is barely enough for the oscar by itself. They're both huge fish producing huge bioloads that both need tons of water and a lot of filtration. Think more like 125 gallons minimum if you want to keep them both.

Your media, however, isn't cycled; your filter is more or less doing nothing at the moment. So not only do you have fish poisoning themselves with their own waste, you have two messy pig fish poisoning themselves with a LOT of waste. You're going to have to do 75-80% water changes every day until it's cycled, even if you only keep the oscar. Ditch the Easy Balance, Aqua Safe and Start Zyme, and just use Seachem Prime to dechlorinate during water changes. And consider taking them both back until you get your filter media cycled. Also, ditch the strips and pick up a liquid test kit.

[Leo625]

It'll work while they're both still small for a very short period of time. However, once they start to grow, 55 gallons is barely enough for the oscar by itself. They're both huge fish producing huge bioloads that both need tons of water and a lot of filtration. Think more like 125 gallons minimum if you want to keep them both.

Your media isn't cycled; your filter is more or less doing nothing at the moment. You're going to have to do 75-80% water changes every day until it's cycled, even if you only keep the oscar. Ditch the Easy Balance, Aqua Safe and Start Zyme, and just use Seachem Prime to dechlorinate during water changes. And consider taking them both back until you get your filter media cycled. Also, ditch the strips and pick up a liquid test kit.

I'm going to see about taking the plecto back but I'd rather do whatever means necessary to keep this particular Oscar, already grown attached to him. Going to try replacing the 75% of water daily for now until it's cycled, how can i tell when the cycle is complete? And the seachem prime covers the PH level, dechlorination, and the biological balance and sludge removal that start zyme does? And could it be purchased at walmart or petsmart?

Also my oscar fish is now acting much more energetic and back to his normal self Probably about to try feeding soon

[ljones]

It'll work while they're both still small for a very short period of time. However, once they start to grow, 55 gallons is barely enough for the oscar by itself. They're both huge fish producing huge bioloads that both need tons of water and a lot of filtration. Think more like 125 gallons minimum if you want to keep them both.

Your media isn't cycled; your filter is more or less doing nothing at the moment. You're going to have to do 75-80% water changes every day until it's cycled, even if you only keep the oscar. Ditch the Easy Balance, Aqua Safe and Start Zyme, and just use Seachem Prime to dechlorinate during water changes. And consider taking them both back until you get your filter media cycled. Also, ditch the strips and pick up a liquid test kit.

I'm going to see about taking the plecto back but I'd rather do whatever means necessary to keep this particular Oscar, already grown attached to him. Going to try replacing the 75% of water daily for now until it's cycled, how can i tell when the cycle is complete? And the seachem prime covers the PH level, dechlorination, and the biological balance and sludge removal that start zyme does? And could it be purchased at walmart or petsmart?

Also my oscar fish is now acting much more energetic and back to his normal self Probably about to try feeding soon

The cycle is complete at such time as when all the ammonia that your fish produces is converted to nitrate by bacteria in your filter. Your tests for ammonia and nitrite will read zero, and your nitrates will steadily increase. Until such a time, keeping that oscar to which you have grown so attached is simply inhumane. The prime dechlorinates and locks ammonia to harmless ammonium for 48 hours. The rest of the claims about the start zyme are buzzwords and ~Violation of TOS~. They do not sell prime at walmart, you're going to need to go to petsmart for that one.

[Leo625]

But does the prime also control Ph levels

[ljones]

No, and neither does the start zyme. Even if the start zyme did anything for pH, the pH is not what's going to permanently damage your oscar in this situation. The ammonia is what will permanently damage your oscar in this situation. The prime will help with this if you're really deadset on keeping the oscar. You're falling for gimmicks, and there's plenty of them in this hobby.

[Leo625]

No, and neither does the start zyme. Even if the start zyme did anything for pH, the pH is not what's going to permanently damage your oscar in this situation. The ammonia is what will permanently damage your oscar in this situation. The prime will help with this if you're really deadset on keeping the oscar.

I appreciate your advice and understanding... Although the start zyme wasn't what was supose to cover the ph though it was the Easy balance. The start zyme just states it helps maintain biological bacteria and sludge levels.

[ljones]

Again, all gimmicks. Water changes and seachem prime are your best tools for keeping water healthy.

[Leo625]

Alright thanks for your experienced advice... also so I don't read some innacurate ploy about it, what's your reccommened method for preparing the new tank I'm getting. How do I get it to cycle without the fish in there to create the ammonia?

[ljones]

http://oscarfish.com/article-home/water/71-autotrophic-bacteria-manifesto.html

http://oscarfish.com/article-home/water/81-fishless-cycle.html

Little bit of light reading. Information that you absolutely MUST know for a healthy aquarium.

[Tom]

I'm glad you found us.
I completely agree with the advice you've already been given.
The only additive I put in my tank is Prime.
It is a good dechlorinator, that's all I need.
It also converts ammonia to it's non toxic form, which is a bonus because no matter how well you maintain everything, something can break and cause a mini cycle at any time.
All the other additives, clarifiers, yadayada... all pretty much bunk.
Dr. Tims One and Only and Tetra Safestart are 2 that are worth considering when starting a tank up, but neither will "instant cycle" a tank.
There is more damage done to fish by people trying to change their natural PH than there is by leaving the fish in water "not an ideal PH".
Oscars are fine anywhere between a PH of 6 and 8, it's when the PH changes that really messes with them.
PH changes are far more likely to occur when anyone tries to alter the normal PH of their water.
The clarifiers and stress coat stuff is simply the pet product industry dreaming up ways to make money IMO.

The only way to remove contaminants from your tank is by way of water changes.

We believe in lots of big water changes.

A single adult Oscar kept alone in a 50g tank will require a minimum of a 50% water change every week to keep nitrates below 20 ppm..
Adding more fish means even more water changes.

Here's a link to our article database, I'm sure you'll find some great info:
http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home.html

[Jon M]

The Nitrogen Cycle article that has already been linked above, and this: http://www.oscarfish.com/article-home/oscars/52-new-oscar-owner-info.html... our beginners article (with all of the hyper linked articles) will answer all of your questions and help you understand what mistakes you are making here.

All the information already given above is point on.

No, a common/sailfin pleco and the O won't make due in a 55g tank. Not at all. It's simply MUCH to small for both of them to have adequate space, and not nearly enough water to dilute the waste the pair will produce. Heck, a 55g is hardly enough for an O alone when considering space and bioload, and IMO not even sufficient for an aged, adult common/sailfin pleco.

[Ted]

Oh! Can I play show and tell?!?

I recently caught this fish. I released it because it was physically too big for my 150g.



Sailfin pleco. It may take some time getting to this size, but they are big, powerful and quite aggressive. Not to mention waste factories.



That's a size 11 shoe.

It's a common bit of misinformation that a tank needs a cleanup crew or a "poop eater". These eat algae and some left over food. Your best cleanup crew is a gravel vac.

[Leo625]

Wow! I can't believe they get that big, can't imagine the tiny little thing in my tank growing that large. Didn't know these could live in lakes either, so maybe I could release it in my lake instead of taking back to petsmart? Pet stores really need to do a better job awaring the customer on how big these things get. The girl at petsmart actually told me that it'd probably suffice if I just had atleast a 30 gallon for both my oscar and plecto...

[Tom]

Actually, the people buying the fish should research them a little and know what they're getting into.
Fish stores, for the most part, just want to sell you stuff.

[Jon M]

so maybe I could release it in my lake instead of taking back to petsmart?

No. Not only are they an evasive species, it probably isn't even legal depending on where you live. Rather than type all this out I'll just link you to this article here on MFK that has already summarized WHY this is a big no no. http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/forums/showthread.php?18675-NEVER-release-an-aquarium-fish-into-the-wild-%281-Viewing%29

The girl at petsmart actually told me that it'd probably suffice if I just had atleast a 30 gallon for both my oscar and plecto...

The employees at chain pet stores like Petsmart are typically 17-19 year old kids that work for minimum wage and don't know the first thing about the hobby. They certainly aren't tested on their fishkeeping knowledge when interviewing, rather their availability and reliable transportation. Chain lfs are all about the all mighty dollar. Fish aren't living beings to them, just merchandise to move.

The word of a lfs employee is to be taken with a grain of salt, so to speak. (I think that's how you use that term right? )

[Ted]

Read the link about (not) releasing fish. But to paraphrase. Don't. It will die everywhere but Florida or Texas. And it is illegal. And a question to your intelligence. I'm very passionate about this, as you can tell.