Does this look like fin rot?

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Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Sun May 08, 2011 1:28 pm

Went from this...
Image

To this... and now it's completely split again. Not fuzzy but it's looks 'thickened' if that makes any sense.
Image

Started torn from being bitten by another oscar.. then healed but a hole remained. The hole then turned white and split. It keeps trying to heal and re-splitting. But it stays white. It's not inflamed or raw looking though. I added melafix and primafix 3 days ago but I'm not sure it's helping. Due to the storms we had we lost power for just over 32 hours. The tank temp dropped to the mid 50's and I had a small mini cycle. Parameters are now back to normal, 0, 0, and 10ppm nitrate. BUT he now has ich AGAIN. So I've also added salt and upped the temp.

I'm not so much worried about the ich... but his fin is worrying me. Is melafix, primafix and salt enough to deal with this or do I need to get something stronger?
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Jimmy77 » Sun May 08, 2011 8:11 pm

Melafix works really good. I would also use Stress Coat with Aloe Vera and the salt helps too. If it takes a while, then do a water change and keep dosing and it should eventually clear up. Some fish take a while to heal but most should respond unless they are stressed for some reason. Water quality is really important. Hope that helps. After I moved my Tiger Oscar to his new tank (84 gallon long, 72"x15"x18") I noticed he had some wounds on his side from being caught. It then turned into a bacterial infection and his tail and dorsal fin where victim. I used Melafix for seven days and then did the recommended water change of 25%. It nearly healed it all but I will have to dose again to get him to back to 100%. He definitely perked up though and is more active. Hope that helps.
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Jon M » Sun May 08, 2011 8:25 pm

I wouldn't necessarily jump right to the conclusion of fin rot. Specially if only the pectoral fins are the ones with damage. What all do you have for decoration in the tank and tank mates? It's super easy for clumsy O to scrape their sides on lava rock, drift wood, and stuff like that and the first thing in the way to take damage is the pectoral fins. Also tank mates, I have an O that was in my 125g with my Jack Dempsey and my O constantly had scrapes and torn up pectoral fins similar to your O's. I moved the JD to another tank and my O's scrapes are 100% gone and his pectoral fins look perfect. I didn't think it possible at the time that simple mouth lunges to shoo off the other fish could cause such shredding but that was definitely the case.
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Sun May 08, 2011 11:12 pm

No tankmates. He's alone in a 90g. The only decor in the tank right now is 2 resin rocks and sand substrate. I know the original damage was done by the red O I rehomed. It's never healed completely. It just turns white and kinda of disintegrates. It definitely got worse during the power outtage and mini cycle that followed. But even before that it never 100% healed. It's driving me crazy. :lol: It's almost looks moldy... :(
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Kmuda » Mon May 09, 2011 7:42 am

The immediate concern is Ich. Get the Ich dealt with first. Once that is taken care of then address the other concerns.

Wounds that do not heal are always a concern, especially when you start to describe them as "white" or inflamed. Once the Ich has been defeated and IF the fins still appear to be a problem, then (once the temp is lowered) dose with SeaChem KanaPlex.
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Tue May 10, 2011 2:13 pm

Will do, thanks.

The last spot of ich disappeared yesterday but I'm only 4 days into the salt/heat treatment. I still adding melafix/primafix too. Honestly the fin looks better already still a little bit white but better than it was. I just noticed a tiny pinhole in his tailfin too. It was probably already there and I missed it since it's really not noticeable.
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Tom » Tue May 10, 2011 6:50 pm

It's important to keep the heat and salt going for 2 weeks after the last sign of any ich on your fish.
That along with daily substrate vacs to remove any cysts that have fallen from you fish, any of which can produce thousands of the critters.
Don't forget to replace salt removed when vacuuming. ;)
Are you removing any carbon from your filter when you add meds?
If not, the meds are probably being absorbed by the carbon, robbing you of any benefit they may have.
:)
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Tue May 10, 2011 7:55 pm

Actually come to think of it I didn't remove the carbon from the C-360. :lol: I don't usually use carbon but it came with the canister.. It's been in there over 6 months though so it's probably useless now. :lol: DOH!
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Tom » Wed May 11, 2011 6:43 pm

It's been in there over 6 months though so it's probably useless now.


Useless at best, at worst it could be leaching crap it took out of the water back in.

Hope that doesn't mean you haven't opened your filter in 6 months, you should open and rinse the media/sponges in tank water and clean the impeller at LEAST every couple of months.
I try to do mine monthly.

I don't use carbon either.
If you change the amount of water we recommend, there's really no need for it IMO (unless you are removing meds from the water).
There are people who know more about fish than I that think there is an association between the use of carbon and HITH.
I don't profess to know one way or another, but I choose not to use and use the space where it was for more bio media (in my case, that's a big tray of Hagen Biomax in my F 405).

Carbon can actually mask problems by removing smells etc, that indicate a problem.

;)
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Capt Dave » Wed May 11, 2011 9:41 pm

The carbon is not adsorbing the meds, it is most likely polluting your water further increasing heeling time...
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Thu May 12, 2011 1:59 pm

Good point. I cleaned the cans 3 times since november. Not thinking I rinsed the carbon and put it back in.. in march. I have removed it now as of yesterday. I usually do 90% water changed once a week. I switched to 50% twice weekly since my well water parameters have changed with the massive rain we had. Plus I usually do small daily vacs to remove poop from the sand. So it's not like the tank is a filthy cesspool... that's why I don't understand where this fin rot is coming from. It's frustrating.. and to top it off my python broke so I'm using a 2g bucket to drain and fill the tank.

The fin looks better. The white that was between the webbing is gone. But that darn white blob at the base of the split is still there and the hole in the tail is still there. :(
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Buehler » Thu May 12, 2011 2:27 pm

Could we get a picture of the white blob? I've been looking around and the blob could be fungal. I would wait for Kmuda to chime in, however, until then try and get a photo.
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Thu May 12, 2011 5:44 pm

These are the best I could get. The 'blob' seems to be preventing the fin from completely healing. :-? Kmuda recommended KanaPlex. I'm going to order some and use it if the blob isnt gone by the end of the 14 day ich treatment.

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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Fri May 20, 2011 1:47 pm

The pinhole in his tail has been gone for a few days now. The pectoral is 'trying' to heal again.. but it's still white-ish. Temp is still 86 and I have salt dosed 3 tbsp per 5 gallons. The 22nd will have been 14 days of salt/heat. Ich is gone.. but since the fin is looking better should I continue the salt longer? Or just cave and do the meds?
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Tom » Fri May 20, 2011 7:18 pm

I would complete the ich treatment, doing daily gravel vacs for 2 weeks after you've seen any sign of it.
Then lower the temp to normal and take the salt out via water changes.
I would not use any meds because your fish is apparently recovering well without them.
:D
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Wed May 25, 2011 8:03 pm

The fin is looking even better. I lowered the temp slightly to 82 but kept the salt content the same. I've also been doing 50% water changes every other day. Nitrate has climbed to 10ppm out of my tap so that's the lowest I can do trate wise. :(

That white spot is still there though..
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Image

I really need to clean the glass before I take pics. :oops:
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Kmuda » Wed May 25, 2011 9:52 pm

Your doing all of the right things and the improvements are obvious. You can stop the salt treatment but keep an eye on things. I have to maintain a constant salt level in my Oscar tank or he starts to develop external pitting. After 2 years I have not been able to pin down the cause but everytime I stop the salt he starts to pit, I then have to medicate, which heals it but does not cure it, as it will come back if I don't maintain the salt.

This is highly unusual. I am not a proponent of constant salt use. In fact I am against it. But I mention it in case you eliminate the salt and problems reoccur with the fins.

I would not worry too much about the "White Spot" on the fin. Holes are one thing. The white spots another and are not usually something to worry too much about. But if you want to try and do something about it you can try Chile's treatment for them. Set the temp about 82 (which is where your temp is currently at) and dose with a MelaFix/PimaFix combo (not either medication by themself, both medications (tonics is a better description) at the same time. Chile has reported some good success with this and I've had success the one time I tried it (on an Angelfish).

I would get the salt removed from the tank via water changes before performing the above treatment.
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Tom » Thu May 26, 2011 6:15 pm

I tried using that on my Red Hook that took a header from my tank awhile back.
Be careful with the dosing, the recommended dose described on both Melafix and Pimafix bottles is the same, so when using both only use 1/2 of the recommended dose of each, so you end up giving the recommended amount of both combined.
I did not do that when I treated my RH, and I found it floating within 1/2 hr of the second (over)dose, and the tank reeked of meds. :(
It may have died simply from trauma caused by the fall and that just pushed it over the edge, but that is the theory I came up with.
I haven't had to dabble much with meds, so I hope someone who is more experienced in these matters chimes in to confirm or negate the rationale.
From my observations here, most of the time people seem to fast to jump on meds.
Clean water and a healthy diet corrects what I estimate as over 80% of the problems people have here.
:D
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Fri May 27, 2011 12:20 pm

I actually did do full dose melafix and primafix for 7 days along with the salt. That's when I first noticed improvement in the fin. I was doing small (10%-15%) daily water changes before the next dose since he was still being treated for ich at the time.. so the melafix/primafix would have been slightly dilluted but my oscar was fine throughout the entire process. Once the 7 days was up I went back to the 50% water changes every other day and just re-dosed the salt. So I'm not sure if it was the melafix/primafix that helped.. or if it was the salt.
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Kmuda » Fri May 27, 2011 3:06 pm

When doing the MelaFix/PimaFix combo dose, I dose both at full strength. You just want to add the dosage slowly, instead of all at once. All at once can irritate the fish's gills.
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Tom » Fri May 27, 2011 3:22 pm

Thanks, filed for future reference!
8-)
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Sun May 29, 2011 6:48 pm

I'm thinking it's the salt now. Since clean water didn't help prior. The fin is looking even better.. the white dot is almost gone like it's flattening out. There is still an opaque looking spot similar to the very first pic I posted but it's "almost" gone. Temp is still 82 and salt content remains the same. I'm scared to dilute it just yet. :lol:
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Tom » Sun May 29, 2011 8:57 pm

Glad it's improving!
:D
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby Kmuda » Mon May 30, 2011 8:26 pm

If what you are doing is working, then stay with it. :lthumb:
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Re: Does this look like fin rot?

Postby LindaD » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:36 pm

The fin is 95% healed now. I didn't realize that the ray was missing too. I thought the fin was just split... the ray is taking the longest to heal but it's almost there.
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