Help. My Oscar has cloudy eyes.

Post questions you have about keeping Oscars here.

Help. My Oscar has cloudy eyes.

Postby Heather Jackson » Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:37 pm

Help! My 2 yr old Oscar "Bruce" developed what appears to be a rapid onset of clouding to his eyes. It appears that he may not be able to see. I have 3 additional fish in his tank (plycostamus & 2 gold fish) and they are both fine. I tested for ammonia, which was negative; The PH level is neutral; We've not made any changes what so ever in regards to chemicals or food. Can anyone suggest what may be our problem and what we can do to correct it?
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia

Postby ChileRelleno » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:11 pm

First the usual gamut of questions...
Tank size
Water parameters, NH3 NO2 NO3 PH, temp (need actual test results)
Filtration
Established tank
New tankmates/decor
Prior/recent history of illness disease
Current illness/disease symptoms/duration
Size/age of fish
Tankmates

Cloudy eyes can be caused by a number of things,
High NH3 or NO2... Need those actual test results.
Bacterial infection...
Worm cataract... I've never dealt with it and not sure how to.

Treatments,
Pristine water parameters.
Paragon, Paragon II, Maracyn, Maracyn II, Ampicillex, Furan II and Neosulflex...
I recommend either increasing dosage and/or length of treatment.
If you can get some medicated food (antibacterial) into him that could help.
"Minimum Tank Size means Maximum Maintenance/Care!"
¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>.·´¯`·.><º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>
If riding in a aeroplane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming.
Experience the element, get out of the vehicle...
SKYDIVE!
One Big A$$ Mistake, America.
User avatar
ChileRelleno
Advice Team
Advice Team
 
Posts: 6609
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:26 pm
Location: Sweet Home Alabama

Postby Heather Jackson » Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:19 am

First the usual gamut of questions...
Tank size= 55 gallon
Water parameters, NH3 NO2 NO3 PH, temp (need actual test results)= NH3=negative, PH=7.0, temp=78, uncertain of NO2 & NO3 levels.
Filtration= 2 - 60 gallon Aqua Tech filters
Established tank = 2 1/2 years
New tank mates/decor=None
Prior/recent history of illness disease=None
Current illness/disease symptoms/duration= sudden onset 4 days ago. Cloudy eyes, decreased activity level, not eating, what appears to be ulcer like sores along the top of his head, slightly increased respiratory effort.
Size/age of fish= 2 years
Tank mates= 2 goldfish & 1 pecostamus (each at 1 1/2 - 2 years of age ).


Last night I performed a 1/3 water change out, added Melafix, and increased salt. In hopes of treating his skin lesions and eyes.

Thanks for the advise.
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia

Postby ChileRelleno » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:48 am

Heather Jackson wrote:First the usual gamut of questions...
Tank size= 55 gallon
Water parameters, NH3 NO2 NO3 PH, temp (need actual test results)= NH3=negative, PH=7.0, temp=78, uncertain of NO2 & NO3 levels.
Filtration= 2 - 60 gallon Aqua Tech filters
Established tank = 2 1/2 years
New tank mates/decor=None
Prior/recent history of illness disease=None
Current illness/disease symptoms/duration= sudden onset 4 days ago. Cloudy eyes, decreased activity level, not eating, what appears to be ulcer like sores along the top of his head, slightly increased respiratory effort.
Size/age of fish= 2 years
Tank mates= 2 goldfish & 1 pecostamus (each at 1 1/2 - 2 years of age ).


Last night I performed a 1/3 water change out, added Melafix, and increased salt. In hopes of treating his skin lesions and eyes.

Thanks for the advise.

Does his skin lesions/ulcers look like the ones found in this article, http://www.oscarfish.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=3 , compare the pics.

Here are some more articles to read,
http://www.oscarfish.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=19
http://www.oscarfish.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=26
http://www.oscarfish.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=7 ( these are absolute minimums IMHO)
http://www.oscarfish.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=29
http://www.oscarfish.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=8

Do you have test kits or can you have the LFS/LPS test a sample of your water and give you the actual numbers, this is extremely important!

How big are the fish, length?

Your 55gal is very overstocked and all the fish are of the messiest varieties. A 55gal is the absolute minimum for one adult O, no tankmates, and many including myself will recommend nothing less than a 75gal.
You will need to get a much larger tank/filtration, 125-150gal range.
Or sadly, get rid of the Goldies and Pleco, very sad but true :(

Your filters are kinda sufficient, but...
They are considered by many to be 'El Cheapo Trasho that Barely Worko' and they are unfortuneately, especially in a overstocked situation like yours.
You need some quality filters like two AC110 or Emperor 400's, or a canister.

The combination of too small a tank, overstock, substandard filtration (IMHO) and very messy fish will often lead to very poor or bad water quality which is often culprit in HITH/HLLE, Cloudy-Eye and a host of other water quality related illness/problems.
"Minimum Tank Size means Maximum Maintenance/Care!"
¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>.·´¯`·.><º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>
If riding in a aeroplane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming.
Experience the element, get out of the vehicle...
SKYDIVE!
One Big A$$ Mistake, America.
User avatar
ChileRelleno
Advice Team
Advice Team
 
Posts: 6609
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:26 pm
Location: Sweet Home Alabama

Postby ChileRelleno » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:59 am

Heather Jackson,
I have to split to go to work, I likely won't be back for a month or more, I'm a longhaul trucker.
If you need expert advice, simply click on any team members name and PM them with a link to your thread, they will help you.

Now, real quick...
Get those water chemistry test results ASAP.

If its HITH/HLLE then you need to do this...
Number One HITH/HLLE Treatment(s) (IMHO)

HITH/HLLE
(1)Water Quality
Get your water quality/chemistry perfect, NH3-0, NO2-0, NO3- 0/20ppm,
check your filters & clean'em if necessary (reduces alot of NO3), gravel vac & PWC, do small PWC's (10%) every other day.
Just about everyone will agree that bad water chemistry and HITH go together like apple pie -n- ice cream...

(2)Diet
Feed a well balanced and varied diet* (See below).

(3)Vitamin Supplements
Add liquid vitamin supplements to all food and vary their diet.
Soak or load everything you feed the fish with vitamins until cured and watch your water.
Vitamins that you add to your tanks water are worthless (IMO).
We use "Vita Chem", our fish get it regularly.
This particular brand is available at most on-line retailers and at better LFS's (We get ours at BigAls).
http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/pro ... 911;pcid2=

(4) Supplementary treatment.
I would add a dose of salt to the tank, this helps lower stress, encourages slime-coat production and gill function amongst other things.
Also a dose of Melafix and Pimafix, these have been known to help healing.

(5)
Medicate,
Alot of folks blame Hexamita for HITH and thus treat for it with medications, BUT, studies have been done showing that Hex (and others) is/are a secondary infection/s (Whether or not Hexamita plays a key-role with HITH infections is controversial).
You need to do what "You" feel is right and correct after researching this for yourself, google "HITH causes prevention and cure" or some such, and visit Cichlid specific forums for more info.

Some folks also think that filter carbon plays a role with HITH...

It seems there are no absolutes as to the cause, but just like ICH there are many ways to treat it and proponenets/opponents of each treatment.

I say again though...
Perfect water quality and a varied nutritious diet supplemented with vitamins.

Here's a good article on HITH available here at Oscarfish,
http://www.oscarfish.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=3

DIET
A quality cichlid pellet or stick should make up 75-80% of your O's diet.
These are my primary foods...
Pellets, Carnivore sticks, freezedried krill, algae wafers, fresh nightcrawlers, fresh/freezedried earthworm (Any worms are great foods!), fresh crickets, fresh mealworms, almost any insect I catch (Insects from outside do pose a risk of insecticides which can harm your fish, be careful.).
I feed or have fed my O all of these foods...
Raw/cooked shrimp, small bits of raw cut fish, beefheart or liver, bitesize bits of veggies (zucchini, carrot, shelled peas, shelled corn and etc...), small tree/grass frogs (NO toads, and know which frog species your feeding as some can be toxic too.) and properly quarantined or raised feeder fish, these should be fed sparingly and rotated as snacks or dessert.
Do not feed unquarantined feeder fish from LFS/LPS, do not feed mammalian flesh (Animal fats from mammals and fowl are very bad for most fish).
I supplement his nutrition by soaking his pellets 4-5 times a week in a liquid vitamin.
I use Vita-Chem, available at some LFS's and on-line retailers, I get mine at BigAl's, http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/pro ... 911;pcid2=
Alot of different types and brands are used, Liquid Centrum for example, but you could reasonably use any quality L. vitamin.

if it's not seek reliable help here from staff other knowledgable users.

If its cloudy-eye then do this...
Cloudy eyes can be caused by a number of things,
High NH3 or NO2... Need those actual test results.
Bacterial infection...
Worm cataract... I've never dealt with it and not sure how to.

Treatments,
Pristine water parameters.
Paragon, Paragon II, Maracyn, Maracyn II, Ampicillex, Furan II and Neosulflex...
I recommend either increasing dosage and/or length of treatment.
If you can get some medicated food (antibacterial) into him that could help.

Likely its both of these afflictions.
Last edited by ChileRelleno on Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Minimum Tank Size means Maximum Maintenance/Care!"
¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>.·´¯`·.><º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>
If riding in a aeroplane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming.
Experience the element, get out of the vehicle...
SKYDIVE!
One Big A$$ Mistake, America.
User avatar
ChileRelleno
Advice Team
Advice Team
 
Posts: 6609
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:26 pm
Location: Sweet Home Alabama

Postby Heather Jackson » Mon Feb 27, 2006 12:07 pm

Thanks again for the advise. I will look into everything you mentioned.

Have a safe trip!
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia

Postby pacu mom » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:17 pm

Does your oscar's eyes appear to be protruding/bulging out in addition to being cloudy? One of our oscars was very ill with ich and then developed popeye/cloudy eye. His fins were clamped against his body, and his eyes were so opaque he seemed to be blind. We thought we would lose him for sure. With his back-to-back illnesses, he didn't eat anything for about one month. After reading Mardel's illness chart, we treated him with Maracyn-Two. He has made a full and complete recovery, and is his old frisky, feisty self again. You can call Virbac (the manufacturer for Mardel medications). They have biologists/techs who would recommend the appropriate course of treatment for your oscar. 800/338-3659 (M-F, 8am-5pm CST). Good luck to you
User avatar
pacu mom
Aequidens rivulatus
 
Posts: 723
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:29 am

Postby Heather Jackson » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:28 pm

They may be protruding a little, but not much. One is worse than the other with what appears to be a brown spot, possible ulcer, in the middle. After the water change, added salt, and Melafix last night he is swimming around and acting much perkier.

I'll call the number you suggested and see what they recommend as well.

Thanks for the advice.
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia

Postby Heather Jackson » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:59 am

Today Bruce looks like his scales & skin are peeling away. Everything is white now not red. So I think he is starting to heal. His eyes don't seem any clearer to me. But he is swimming around more & moving his eyes like he can see a little, however they do look like they are bulging today. He is still not eating though. I started Paragon treatment yesterday and I tested his water. Here are the results:
NO3= below 20
NO2=0.5 (Caution)
Total Hardiness= 25 (Very soft)
Total Alkalinity= 80 (Moderate)
PH= 7.0 (Neutral)
I will continue do 10% water change outs EOD prior to the Paragon treatment and administer Melafix weekly as directed.
Thanks so much for all of the help!
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia

Postby ChileRelleno » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:02 am

10% is nothing, at least 25%+ to make a difference.
"Minimum Tank Size means Maximum Maintenance/Care!"
¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>.·´¯`·.><º> ¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>¸.·´¯`·.¸><º>
If riding in a aeroplane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming.
Experience the element, get out of the vehicle...
SKYDIVE!
One Big A$$ Mistake, America.
User avatar
ChileRelleno
Advice Team
Advice Team
 
Posts: 6609
Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 3:26 pm
Location: Sweet Home Alabama

Postby Heather Jackson » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:47 am

Bruce seems to be improving gradually. Thanks to everyone for your advice. I'll keep you posted.
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia

Postby Heather Jackson » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:35 pm

Check out this picture of my Oscar Bruce. Let me know what you think may be going on.

Image
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia

Postby Ted » Wed Mar 01, 2006 1:51 pm

I can't say that I have ever seen this. But it looks like there are a couple injuries to the fish too.

I would step up your water changes to at least 25% daily. Dose with Melafix and Paragon as directed.

Just keep up with the maintenance and he should improve quickly.

Ted
"We are made of star stuff." -Carl Sagan
User avatar
Ted
Admin formerly known as Polystigma
Admin formerly known as Polystigma
 
Posts: 9840
Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2001 2:01 am
Location: Auburndale, Florida

Postby Heather Jackson » Wed Mar 01, 2006 2:24 pm

I've been working hard with him for the last 4 days. 25% water change out with Paragon EOD. Daily Melafix & water parameter checks. He seem more active, but he sure does look terrible. I will try to get a better picture tonight when there is less light in the house.
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia

Postby aquagirl » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:44 pm

It looks to me like he has scraped himself on something. It's difficult to tell by the picture if his scales have been scraped or have simply flaked off. I would use the Melafix, 1tbs salt per gallon and increase the temp. Good Luck!
Aquagirl :fish:

1- 40 gal 8" Oscar
1- 20 gal live-bearing tank (Oscar treats)
1- 1 gal male Betta
aquagirl
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:25 am
Location: Seattle

Postby aquagirl » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:48 pm

Sorry- one tbs per 5-10 gallons!!!
Aquagirl :fish:

1- 40 gal 8" Oscar
1- 20 gal live-bearing tank (Oscar treats)
1- 1 gal male Betta
aquagirl
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 12:25 am
Location: Seattle

Postby Heather Jackson » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:10 pm

Here are some additional pictures that I took of Bruce tonight. He looks worse than this morning. Water chem check is pretty normal with the exception of the PH being a little low.
Take a look and give me your opinions as to what may be going on with him. Image
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia

Postby Heather Jackson » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:18 pm

Here are a couple of additional views.

Image

Image
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia

Postby pacu mom » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:10 am

Poor Bruce! His eyes look just like our Freddy's eyes when he was sick. He is an albino tiger who was just getting over ich...so if he had white areas on his body, we didn't see them. We thought he was a goner. Maracyn-Two cured him! I hope you had a chance to speak with a tech at Virbac 800/338-3659. If you haven't, I strongly encourage you to do so. I'm convinced they have the right med that will help your Bruce.

Good luck
User avatar
pacu mom
Aequidens rivulatus
 
Posts: 723
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 2:29 am

Postby Heather Jackson » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:05 am

No ich. I did call Virbac and they recommended the same product. I started using Paragon & Melafix prior to your posting. I sure hope it works.
Heather Jackson
Microgeophagus ramirezi
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 10:13 pm
Location: Ballground, Georgia


Return to Oscar Fish Help & Advice

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests