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TOPIC: Article "correction" side note

Article "correction" side note 2 years 5 months ago #50765

  • toom
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I am still reading from time to time all articles but now after reading something twice i have to ask.
Note: mg/L can be directly translated into ppm. They are the same measurement

Quote:

Evidence suggests that sensitivity to nitrate is species-specific. Kincheloe et al. (1979) reported larval mortality of Chinook salmon, rainbow trout, and cutthroat trout at concentrations as low as 2.3-7.6 mg/L NO3-N. The 96-hr LC50 (median lethal concentration) for fathead minnow larvae is 1,341 mg/L NO3-N (Scott and Crunkilton 2000), and the lethal dose for adult and juvenile medaka is 100 mg/L NO3-N (Shimura et al. 2002).

A range of sublethal effects of nitrate has also been reported. For example, Greenlee et al. (2004) observed increased apoptosis and reduced cell number in cultured preimplantation mouse embryos exposed to 1 mg/L ammonium nitrate. In an accumulated nitrate test, in which nitrate built up over the course the experiment, Shimura et al. (2002) observed delayed hatching time and reduced fertilization and hatching rates of eggs produced by adult medaka exposed for 2 months to a maximum of 75 mg/L NO3-N. In that test, the offspring also exhibited reduced juvenile growth rates. At 50 mg/L NO3-N, Shimura et al. (2002) observed reduced spawning and fecundity (measured as egg number) among adult medaka exposed to nitrate as juveniles.


NO3 = Nitrite
NO3-N = Nitrate nitrogen

The difference, here i have to say that i had to Google it because i had no idea of the multiplication factor is something around 4.4. So the lethal dose for medaka fish was 440 mg/l NO3.

Maybe i was the only one that stupid to miss that or that did not noticed this but it would be more easy to add the real NO3 behind NO3-N.
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Article "correction" side note 2 years 5 months ago #50777

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Don't make me use my brain today.,....

Interconverting Nitrate as Nitrate (Nitrate-NO3) and Nitrate as Nitrogen (Nitrate-N)
The atomic weight of nitrogen is 14.0067 and the molar mass of nitrate anion (NO3
-
) is
62.0049 g/mole
Therefore, to convert Nitrate-NO3 (mg/L) to Nitrate-N (mg/L):
Nitrate-N (mg/L) = 0.2259 x Nitrate-NO3 (mg/L)
And to convert Nitrate-N (mg/L) to Nitrate-NO3 (mg/L):
Nitrate-NO3 (mg/L) = 4.4268 x Nitrate-N (mg/L)
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Article "correction" side note 2 years 5 months ago #50781

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Stop you are hurting me.
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Article "correction" side note 2 years 5 months ago #50784

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Now if only I knew what this thread is even about lol
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Article "correction" side note 2 years 5 months ago #50788

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It's the difference between Nitrate as Nitrogen (N) and Nitrate as Nitrate (NO3-N)

Nitrate-NO3 = N03-N = Nitrate as Nitrate
Nitrate-N = N = Nitrate as Nitrogen

And

1mg/l N03-N = 4.4268mg/l N

or,,, to say the same thing...

1mg/l Nitrate-NO3 = 4.4268mg/l Nitrate-N

So.... 100mg/l Nitrate-NO3 = 442.68mg/l Nitrate-N

The article in question list:
lethal dose for adult and juvenile medaka is 100 mg/L NO3-N

Which could also be stated:
lethal dose for adult and juvenile medaka is 442.68 mg/L N

But I'm not sure of toom's request. Because the numbers are accurately stated in the article and our test kits actually measure in NO3-N (Nitrate as Nitrate), which are the numbers used in the article (100mg/l NO3-N).
120g - Tiger Oscar, Parrot Cichlid, SDs | 55g - 24 Year Old Kissing Gourami
55g - Angelfish/Bolivan Rams | 40g GBRs - 20g Apistos
65g Blackwater Planted Discus Tank
4 Cats, 2 Shelties, 1 Rat Terrier, 1 wife, 1 old lady, 1 sub-adult, 1 rug rat.
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Article "correction" side note 2 years 5 months ago #50794

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I only know Nitrate nitrogen NO3-N on liquid fertilizers out of agriculture on farms but that is not the same as the Nitrate NO3- in our tanks or better said its the same but just another measurement but i am very sure ordinary liquid tests just can measure NO3-

It would make sense if the articles of Kincheloe et al and Co are not orginally intended on aquatic live or obtaining the Nitrate enriching of the water from agriculture or industrial human made pollution.

Don't take me wrong, Nitrate in higher Dosis is still not good at all, but if you take the Numbers of pure Nitrate its nearly impossible to reach 240 mg let alone 442mg or in the case of the fathead minnow close to 5g or 5000mg/liter only by fish.
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Article "correction" side note 2 years 5 months ago #50854

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Well i am confused and don't know if you or me has a number twist. I think is vice versa so correct would be
the lethal dose for adult and juvenile medaka is 100 mg/L NO3-N (Shimura et al. 2002).
the lethal dose for adult and juvenile medaka is 442.68mg/l NO3- (Shimura et al. 2002).
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Article "correction" side note 2 years 5 months ago #50855

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You are right toom, most of our test kits test for NO3- not NO3-N. But either number in the article is the same number. I reported it as Shimura recorded it in the peer reviewed article. But I do need to include a primer detailing the difference in measuring between N03- and NO3-N.
120g - Tiger Oscar, Parrot Cichlid, SDs | 55g - 24 Year Old Kissing Gourami
55g - Angelfish/Bolivan Rams | 40g GBRs - 20g Apistos
65g Blackwater Planted Discus Tank
4 Cats, 2 Shelties, 1 Rat Terrier, 1 wife, 1 old lady, 1 sub-adult, 1 rug rat.
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Article "correction" side note 2 years 5 months ago #50856

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That was my first point, NO3-N is normaly not used by us hobbists or at least i never saw it around but i know geological departments use it on soil samples on streets, fields that get fertilizers or is used by cattle with access to creeks, rivers, lakes, ponds or ground water.

Maybe only add the real NO3 ((in Clips)) than the difference from Nitrate to Nitrate nitrogen and back is even hard for us real fish geeks let alone if an newby comes around, not that all that scientific mambojambo scares people away :D
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