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TOPIC: Are the a Pair

Are the a Pair 6 months 1 week ago #70453

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I have 2 Red Albino Oscars all by themselves in a tank.They are around 10 inches big. Have them for about 6 months now. They are constantly making pits in the gravel and over the last 3 weeks have been lip locking each other. Also shaking at each other and flapping their tails at each other.By these actions do I have a male and female. Or will 2 females do these sort of things too.
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Are the a Pair 6 months 1 week ago #70455

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Impossible to say until at least one lays eggs.

Could be

Female and infetril male
Male and infetril female
Two females
Two males where one let it happen to get dominated and plays the female part (rare but possible)

The only way to 100% sure is waiting and Passion. May also to improve the keeping quality up so that they may have success what inhabitats regular big water changes, may some humid acid to improve water condions for eggs. Keeping temps up and a good mix of food with some fresh treats for protein.
This can work but especially the raising temp into the higher tropical spawning range for SA cichlids between 26 to 32+ degrees Celsius range also can cause the aggression level. Especially with Astronotus that can become very mean compared to there regular behavior.
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Are the a Pair 6 months 1 week ago #70457

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Another consideration would be the age of your Oscars, you say you have had them for about 6 months. Oscars reach sexual maturity from about 18 months so they may be a little too young to breed. I have what I believe to be 2 females and one has only just laid some eggs and she is 3.5 yrs old.
Would suggest keep an eye on things and hope the aggression doesn't get out of hand otherwise may need a plan B.
150 gallon 2x Tiger Oscars
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Are the a Pair 6 months 1 week ago #70458

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Another point is Astronotus is compared to other fishes very random to pair up on purpose. They are not like many centrals other south americans that you just add male and female into the same tank and you most likley have at least fish that may don't get along all the time but mate and spawn.
Oscars very need to 100% bond together to become a breeding pair, you even could have male and female in perfect condions in a tank, if they don't like each other it will never happen, not even be close.

The thing is that you don't see as much real breeding pairs around is like Ernie14 said. Oscars need at least 14 to 18 months to become sexually marture but on "reasons" don't start like other fish to raise one clutch after another. They take alot of time, in most cases several years.

We know:
Juvelin Astronotus are very aggressive against there own kind after they stop being guarded by the parent fish so in nature they mostly hide in river side arms or shore areas and grow.

In nature Oscars live like Angel fish or even Discus in lose groups together but on all pictures i saw and any Importer, catcher, diver and so on i asked that saw wild Oscars told me he only saw more or less adult ones with at least 22 to 25 cm.
Out of this groups from may a half to a dozen individuals pairs bond out.

In a tank this is very hard up to impossible to arcive because even on fairly large tanks you just miss massive space that so many big Cichlids get along with each other.
Lets say any fish occupy around something around 3 to 5 square or qubic feet what sounds not much but that is at least 180 up to 800 Gallons of space per fish. In the aquaristic world we still consider 240G as "big"

That means even if you have a fairly big tank with lets say 6.5 x 3 x 2 feet and you made it happen to keep a small group of Oscars till sexual marturity so that they don't kill each other before they have most likley not enough space to pick terretorys and bond with each other or just don't feel well enough because another fish is just like always two feet away from them that also want to pick a fight to keep others away from his borders. Now we have the scenario in a tank we see often in african tanks where overstocking brings more peace into a group because aggression is putted in an small level on anybody and not just only on the weakest in the group that get killed.

Knowing the 100% Sex of an Astronotus is also very hard to arcive because seeing two mating and getting fetrilize eggs is the only 100% way to know.


For this very reasons most linebreed Oscars you see in LFS are south asian or south american or for the US may florida pond breeds that get keeped in groups inside concrete ponds or are from lets say more serious semi professionelle hobbists with a pair that has connections to whole sellers while the first scenario is more commen for the standart linebreeds because even if you have in the US very cheap electricity and water it's still not that cheap to raise a couple of dozen Baby oscars in propper quality with factors from water, electricity, food and consumed time. You may can image if an Oscar costs you as end customer 8 to 12 Dollars including taxing what the actual breeder earns per fish on the end of the selling chain after he sells it to whole sellers and this ones on LF's where it ends on the end customers tank. A good price would be between 2 to 2.50$ for an fish that need at least 2 to 2.5 months of care and alot of resources and time. So if you don't be able to do it in big style it will never add upp and you even lose money on it.

That also is may the reason breeding your own standart Oscars is regulary not the best idea at all than you as someone with limited capacity can't compete to this and for your LFS it is in general not adding up because they have some standart qualitative control and don't like mixing whole seller and private customer breeded fish in there tanks for reasons like health and bacterial burdens that can kill off whole fish stocks. Need to QT for a couple of weeks may treat with medication and of course maintain and feed what consumes time and cost them money.

Well I switched topics :pinch: my bad
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Are the a Pair 6 months 5 days ago #70464

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Thanks for all the info. Pretty sure Oscars are about 2 years old. Person that had them before me said they were around 18 months old. Was thinking about getting a male around the same size as them and putting him in their tank. Maybe 2 will pair up then? Or will all hell break loose? Btw tank is a 90 gallon.
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Are the a Pair 6 months 5 days ago #70467

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mr limpet wrote:
Thanks for all the info. Pretty sure Oscars are about 2 years old. Person that had them before me said they were around 18 months old. Was thinking about getting a male around the same size as them and putting him in their tank. Maybe 2 will pair up then? Or will all hell break loose? Btw tank is a 90 gallon.



The second will happen. I would not try your experiment at least under 180 G and 6.5 feet of tank. 90G will fail.

With two big Oscars in 90G it also can be the Case that your fish don't like each other as may you think and if you improve there Situation that they start to fight.

Anyways how do you plan to look for an 100% proven male and if you would get a real breeding pair, what do you plan?
Like said before if it is not something more rare like a real wild patterned one that is also paired up with a fish from the same collecting point so that you get an Wild type F1, ruboocolatus, crassiapensis or something like that. With regular linebreeds you may can use them as live food
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Are the a Pair 6 months 5 days ago #70468

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I knew I'd hear it for having them in a 90 gallon. I could set up my125 gallon. Which I probably will. Also I know an expert who can properly vent the Oscar I'm interested in. If it's a male I would purchase it from him. I think I have 2 females. Because from what I have read 2 males will not get along at all. What are the chances of getting a breeding pair if I put the 3 of them in my 125 gallon all at once? I know I would have to monitor the tank for any over aggression. Then remove the odd one.
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Are the a Pair 6 months 5 days ago #70469

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But what I'm concerned about is that the 2 I have now are lip locking. I never heard of 2 females lip locking.
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Are the a Pair 6 months 4 days ago #70475

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Again there is no 100% way to sex Astronotus. It's not possible with counting fin rays, its not possible by different size, no different body shape and also not by venting because the genial papilla is to 90% the same on Astronotus and get exected by both Partners.

Astronotus is one of the more primitive and oldest species of cichlids and did not more envolved. For this reason there is also no other species around anymore that can hybridizise with them.
Anybody that tell he can is only shooting into the blue.

An upgrade for your fish is very needed. 125 is the bare minimum. I would even say more like 150 to 180 is the bare minimum for two Oscars.

For the constelations. Yes regulary males fight each other more as females but that is not always the Case. Like said a very dovote male can also livery with another male. It will refuse to fight back and take it place while the dominant fish rules more or less the bigger part of the tank.

With the 3rd fish. Of course you can try it but it can also fail and the two allready existing fish Team up and fight him off as the new one.

My personal exp is Oscars are more or less very tolerant against smaller and not sexually marture species mates. That means if an Baby Oscar is out of the size to be eaten with about 10 to 12 cm they more or less don't care for them.
They more or less exept each other long term and may a older fish later pairs up with a younger one.

Putting fishes at the same size to each other at the other hand can bring you maybe a breeding pair in a short time frame compared to using smaller ones but fighting is in 9 out od 10 cases sure.
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Are the a Pair 6 months 4 days ago #70476

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Really appreciate the advice. I will definitely upgrade to the 125 gallon. Also will look for someone selling a 150 or bigger tank too. After thinking about it I think I will just leave these 2 by themselves. They get along so well. As they say I don't want to upset the apple cart.
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